FrontierFolk.net

[Richard Draper]

just curious: IF a longhunter/scout or someone had a dagger on his person and wore it un der his left arm for example in an upside-down fashion.... how were the sheaths worn.. in a shoulder holster?

Rick Draper in the Canadas

[owl]

This also interests me. Daggers were carried by every level of society, including women, for protection. Documentation for earlier centuries is readily available but I'm not seeing any for the colonial era. I read accounts for previous centuries that they were carried on belts or hidden about the body. The Scots for instance carried as many as three sizes of edged weapon. Jesse Mains mentioned in another thread that he sews pockets in his modern clothes for edged pointy things. I would think if it were carried under the armpit it would have to be secured in some manner.

[Jason M]

HUH???

Do we have any accounts of guys carrying knives upside down, Nam LRRP/SF style??? With out the proper amount of 100 mile an hour tape it would fall out.

Seriously, are there any accounts of guys doing this? As to the bladed Highlander, I too have heard the stories of lads keeping knives in their bonnets... but never seen a single shred of evidence to back it up.

Jason
_________________
FFBB #3
"Librarian" and "Experimental Archaeologist"
Sure seems like there are a lot of people around here who walk on water...

[Lady of the Woods]

Well, I don't know exactly where those Scottish lads carried their blades but here are some photos I took while visiting the National Museum in Edinburgh Scotland.





I am going to put in a two cents worth (and probably not worth half that) and say there isn't much documentation to say that virtually every redneck in the country today has a knife on him somewheres, but that doesn't mean he don't. Same with Native women, same with woodsmen, but then again I'll probably roast in hell for such blasphemy.

z
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http://madannebailey.blogspot.com/

[culpeperlt]

Rick,

Not aware of any knives of the time being worn upside-down. None of the sheaths I have seen would have been able to securly carry them in that mode.

Kyle

[Lloyd Moler]

Zan,
Are you calling me a "Redneck?"
_________________
Lloyd Moler

All America lies at the end of the wilderness road and our past is not a dead past, but lives within us. Our forefathers had the wild without but civilization within. What they dreamed we live, and what they lived we dream.

[Morgan]

[owl]

Richard, check this fellow out. http://forgedintime.com/

[MacGregor]

As far as Scots are concerned, their arm pit knives (sgian achlais) were carried in several ways: in sheaths suspended by thongs looped over the shoulder, in special sewn-in pockets in their shirts/waistcoats, clipped to the waistcoat armhole by a sheath with a finger-like extension, or otherwise connected inside the coat/kilt. They would not have been carried upside down, or they would have fallen out.

A "pit knife" or dagger would out of necessity have to have been readily and quickly accessible, and a too-tight sheath would interfere with a "quick draw". These were weapons of last resort, and were kept hidden and ready for use! Check with Kyle or Glenn McClain for more info (I'm really just a fan, but a big one!).

Sassenach and I love our daggers!

MacGregor

[Captain_Cogle]

[Michael Archer]

How d' ye!

A nice collection of late Victorian Scottish cutlery there.



IMHO...

In my years of study and research in books, museums in several countries, and in public and private collections- if there is ONE thing that is always (use of a universal so noted) problematical- it is...

sheaths and scabbards.

Largely because the survival rate of artifactual leather is so much less than the survival rate of knives.
And, a sheath or scabbard behind a pane of glass or in a collection drawer does not speak too loudly about how it was worn.

While an "arm pit," "sleeve" or "boot" knife implies some form of arm pit, sleeve, or boot carry, finding Primary or Secondary Source Material and artifactual speciments of the sheaths or scabbards is hard.

Belt loops imply the use of belts. Wide belt loops imply the use of wide belts. Holes for tie strings imply being tied to belts.
Whether the belt is worn around the waist as is believed to be the most common, and supported by scant references and some art, or someone somewhere put a belt over a shoulder....

awaits the research and documentation.

Others' mileage will vary...

X
_________________
Michael Archer (His Mark)
Spy
I didn't like him anyways. He wasn't right... in the head.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc

[Lady of the Woods]

so here is my point, until now when it was just formally documented live on the internets, is there other documentation of the fact that Morgan, Lloyd, me and others are generally not to be found without a pointy sharp thing? maybe but maybe not, but that doesn't mean that until just this very day - today we rednecks (and others) weren't carrying edged weapons. so for all the value that documentation brings (and it's a LOT) I still contend that some things were just so dang common they aren't mentioned. again, that's just my two cents worth, awe heck now it's probably three cents worth. sorry.
Z
Oh PS, thanks for the heads up on the era of those dirks, Capt.C. 'preciate it.
_________________
http://madannebailey.blogspot.com/

[KHickam]

I generally carry two knifes - a small pocket knife with one or two blades. Plus a sheath or scabard knife on my belt - and unless someone reads this thread two hundred years from now - there is no documentation to support that if someone were to try to reenact my life in the future.
_________________
Keith Hickam

"But, I swear a woman's breast is the hardest rock the Almighty ever made on this Earth and I can find no sign on it." Bearclaw Chris Lapp

[lalunette]

[58Hawken]